Dulles Rail is a complicated project. It is good to keep an open mind. Here is what one expert had to say. I don't think Mr. Utt was paid by rail station land owners to write this.

“Dulles rail is a poorly conceived and mismanaged project whose limited
benefits will be well below the costs to build and operate the system. As its financial problems worsen, WMAA will continue to cast an ever widening net in search of billions of dollars in subsidies from taxpayers in Virginia and the Nation to bail out a project that has been doomed to failure from the very beginning.”

Ronald D. Utt recently retired from his position as the Herbert and Joyce Morgan Senior Research Fellow at the Heritage Foundation.

The Heritage Foundation? Seriously? That is like taking Fox news at their word.

David, he may not have been paid directly, but Heritage Foundation is funded by Honda, Chevron, and Exxon Mobil.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Heritage_Foundation

Cuccinelli who is from northern Virginia says the whole rail project is a disaster for the region and the state from the huge debts being run up, and the losses that will be incurred and subsidies needed for a facility few will use. High tolls will hit not only Dulles Toll Road users but other residents as traffic diverts.

"Not a single penny"

AG Ken Cuccinelli says he opposes the state "spending a single penny" to, as he puts it, "bail out Phase 2."

Cuccinelli would probably very much disagree with his own statement if the discussions were to extend Metro down the 66 corridor, helping his former Centreville and Clifton constituents.

How does being from NoVa provide credibility? That's ridiculous, Prock (get it, Pig Rock?)

Anyhoo, Joy makes a good point about his opinion (if it mattered) changing if it benefited Centreville.

I'll regret it when my tax bill comes in Joy. NO Rail to Loudoun!

Rail at any cost is not advisable. please read this to see that Opt in means we LOSE $713 million thru 2040...using Loudoun's official cost #'s

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B64IfZTFiYIAQlRaaF90SDhrWWM/edit
Opt out and we gain $600 million thru 2040

Yes that is a no-brainer!

Prock likes to be heard, that loud voice that almost sounds like a temper tantrum because he's not getting his way.

Phase II is going to be amazing, and I really hope the big pig on a wagon can ride along the end of a train as sort of an ironic parade.

I think we've come to realize that older people yell louder.

I think its great.. so do 98% of my friends... i also think we have been reaised with the awareness that public transportation is better in long run than our *older* counterparts though. People dont like change..

*raised

Also surprised to see that a dozen people is called a "large turnout"

That is ironic because the young people are the ones with the most to lose.

Not only leading the County in future years, paying thru the nose for this bureaucratic fiasco. IMHO!

I love change, if it will benefit me, or in this case the county. Change for change sake if foolish.

Bro, let's build a highway over the Potomac, from Point of Rocks to the Kennedy Center.

Just in case you wanted an answer, you could probably do most of these for what Loudoun is being asked to pay for rail.
Results...actual traffic relief!

Dulles Rail - $500 million + ongoing expenses

Pacific and Atlantic Boulevards to reduce Rt. 28 traffic
Rt. 7 improvements from Rt. 28 to Fairfax County line
Rt. 7 interchange at Ashburn Village Blvd.
Rt. 7 interchange at Belmont Ridge Road, Rt. 659
Rt. 7 interchange at Battlefield Parkway
Rt. 7 interchange at Rt. 690
Rt. 7 Truck climbing lane, W. Market St. to Rt. 9
Rt. 9 traffic calming in Hillsboro
Rt. 15 Leesburg Bypass widen to 6 lanes
Rt. 15 traffic calming in Lucketts
Rt.15 interchange at Battlefield Parkway
Rt. 15 widening to 4-lane w/ median from Evergreen Mills Rd. to Harmony Church Rd.
Sycolin Rd. overpass of Rt. 15 Leesburg Bypass
Sycolin Rd. widening to 4-lane from Rt. 15 Leesburg Bypass to Leesburg Park& Ride
Dulles South Parkway build 4-lane from Loudoun County Parkway to Route 606 Extended
Rt. 50 widening to six lanes Fairfax County to Northstar Blvd.
Rt. 606 expanded to four lanes from Dulles Greenway to Evergreen Mills Rd.
Rt. 606 Extended built from Loudoun County Parkway to Rt. 50
Loudoun County Parkway built from Creighton Rd. to Rt. 606
Belmont Ridge Rd, Rt. 659 expanded to 4-lane w/ median from Rt. 7 to Dulles Greenway

Prock, while all of those improvements being built and roads are shut down, detoured and generally making the commute even worse, where will all of the traffic go? How long will it take? Do you have a timeline, budget and plan for it? Shall I go on?

David, building all those roads and interchanges sounds just as expensive. They did the whole interchange construction on Rt 28 and it's still sit and go from sterling blvd to past the airport. Sitting in traffic, taking 40 minutes to make a 5 minute drive. I would also like to point to how expensive cars are and how the people who work our worst low paying jobs, are riding bikes to work. Maybe they deserve a dependable cheap clean form of transportation for they are members of our community too. The rail makes sense and your arguments don't. You act like Metro is personally sending you a 350 million dollar bill that you have to pay yourself.

Yes to Metro

So the solution to the problem of over congested roads and high tolls is not to add alternate public transportation like the rail, but to do MORE road construction causing more delays and traffic. And how would that be paid for? Your logic amazes me LaRock. Not to mention that probably by the time all that construction is finished, things would be just as bad as they are now because of continued growth, so the never ending cycle of construction continues.

Melvin, electric trains are less efficient than cars and far less efficient than buses. Stop and think where that nice clean electric pwer comes from...power plants.
Here is a current study called, "Recapturing Global Leadership with Bus Transit." enjoy! Trains are anything but free.

http://www.itdp.org/documents/20110526ITDP_USBRT_Report-LR.pdf

and another: http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/transportation/urban-transit

David, I still didn't hear you address the cost of building all your interchanges roads and black smoke producing busses. Nor did you address the lower class that can use the Metro as a cheap convenient way of bettering themselves and the community they live in. Electricity is not perfect but it is a lot cleaner for our air then the fossil fuels that the cars and diesel engine busses. Stop trying to cloud the issue with reports made by people who are so obviously against the project in the first place. The fact is Loudoun needs to evolve into the modern day. Maybe you think we should all Start riding horses around again, that would be cleaner then electricity.

Yes to Metro

What kind of 'culture' do you want and how will metro bring you that culture?
Metro means higher taxes, higher tolls, and more traffic on route 7 and route 28. Yeah, who would want to spend BILLIONS for 2.8 miles of track? It's a real no brainer, or a real head scratcher.

Mr. Howard, how are you man? Remember not everyone takes Dr. Fuller as seriously as you, especially since he fessed up that the station area land owners wrote him a $15,000 dollar check.
Mr. Peter Samuel of Toll Road News saw Fuller's study and said this:

Fuller's work is one bald assertion after another, stated without any explanation of an underlying methodology, but with great assurance... arrogant empty nonsense.
Fuller's work makes most traffic and revenue studies look like real scholarship by comparison. Most of them at least explain their data, discuss their assumptions and describe their methodology for forecasts, and usually provide some sensitivity analysis… how changes in key assumptions alter the results. Fuller does almost none of that. This is just fodder for the credulous.
“... this planners stuff is so feebleminded it is difficult to take it seriously.
This is total nonsense. Also counties not so burdened by the borrowing needed for Dulles Rail will have a competitive advantage in terms of taxes in attracting business and development.
Peter Samuel
Editor TOLLROADSnews
ouch!

Fuller didn't "take" $15,000. Don't twist words, that's not playing fair.

I clearly misread a comment earlier and apologize to Mr. LaRock for the mistake.

Tolls will lower if metro ends at Dulles and we won't have to pay the increases in taxes to pay for metro. With more housing, there probably will be a few more jobs, but where would 40,000 jobs come from?! Is that another quote from the hired gun, Dr. Fullofit?

How much more housing will come to Dulles? Has Loudoun learned nothing over the past 20 years? More housing means more needs for more services and that means higher taxes to pay for those services! Loudoun is the fastest growing county in the nation AND has the highest residential tax rate from here to the Gulf of Mexico. HELLOOOOO..........there's a correlation, more housing means higher taxes. End of line metro stations bring more RESIDENTIAL growth, not business growth. Look at Vienna and Dunn Loring to prove that point. Do we REALLy want more residential growth, along with the higher taxes that go with it?

+1

You cant argue that putting the rail in will help people find jobs. Think about the people who do not have many skills, low paying jobs and no money for such a luxurious belonging such as a car. Metro will give them the opportunity to look anywhere within walking distance to the train, from Loudoun county to Washington D.C. so the square miles where they can look for a job is expanded from the 2 or 3 miles closest to their house. They find people and jobs that are willing to give them skills so they can improve both themselves and the community they live in. Metro make sense.

Yes to Metro

Rob, I am sure they will have lovely bike racks for those who need them, ride your bike to the metro station, then get on a train downtown. It will help those at our lowest income levels, without the need to build "affordable housing" right next to the station. We need to take cars off our roads, and it's high time Loudoun got better than second rate public transportation.

Yes to Metro

The airport doesn't want to be the last station - they don't have the space to accomodate the necessary rail car facilities or the parking facilities.

RAIL TO ASHBURN! Let's not let a few loud and narrow-minded pigs (I only use the term because you jokers like to drive that pig around town) ruin this for everyone!

I'd much rather have spent the $20+ in tolls I paid the other day to the Australian company who owns the Greenway going to important infrastructure needs to Loudoun.

No thanks Libby! I'm a young taxpayer, and I don't want to be stuck with the bill!!!!!!

g.stone, in my opinion, this comes down to right or wrong, and it's just plain wrong for the citizens of Loudoun and all of northern Virginia, to pay taxes to Richmond and have our public public transportation system in the condition it is in. Richmond doesn't have the kind of traffic we do because OUR money pays for their roads and public transportation. Invest now and enjoy the benefits for generations to come.

Yes to Metro

Agreed, it is telling that the feds are staying out of Metro Phase II. Why the double standard for Phase I? I don't know why those who advocate Phase II are not more demanding of a better deal made in good faith. Opt out; we must bide our time. It would be a big mistake to sign over a blank check to WAMTA, WMAA et al. Loudouners are just an afterthought to them.

Libby, You have a problem with geography and spatial awareness. The land surrounding the airport is owned by the federal government, the same people that denied Phase II funding. If they want Metro to the airport, all they have to do is open the magic purse from the feds and release some land. It's still tax dollars in the end, but it's not Loudoun County tax dollars. If the feds want the train to Dulles, they will have to pay. If they won't pay, what does that tell you?

I would disagree with the assertion that MWAA said they "are perfectly OK" with Metro ending at the airport. They said they likely would reconfigure it, possibly making it less accessible.

If MWAA must reconfigure, so be it. It is all they do anyways, when has there EVER been a cogent sensible plan from this body?

Libby, who cares if the airport authority doesn't want parking on their land and would prefer that parking be on Loudoun land that Loudoun taxpayers pay for it?! The airport has plenty of land for parking lots! Rail needs to end at Dulles. Taxpayers in Loudoun shouldn't be stuck with paying for parking lots for metro, and financing this crazy land development deal that for the first time in the history of subways in the US, the government won't help pay for it.
Subways were great 100 years ago, before everyone had a car. Let's move into the 21 century and ditch the metro!

With all due respect Dusty I must take exception to your claim that Rail Now site will provide analysis. It is a sorry mouthpiece for a very skewed and outright deceptive load of propaganda, it is shameful and only reveals that this project has no real positive aspects so they must be contrived. An example, the front page statement, "Loudoun’s Gross County Product will increase almost 1,000% by 2040 || 40,000 new professional and business service jobs || Loudoun County becomes a major source of regional economic growth" Rail Now takes a projection and states it as fact. Get real man, in 2007 did anybody know we were about to entire the 2nd great Depression? Did Fuller projections take into account $13 trillion debt and other factors that might break our national economy when he made his psychic predictions?

Lots of good info at dullesmetro site. Loudoun gov. is real but too much completely undigested material.
LoudounOptOut material is regularly submitted to supervisors and Loudoun staff. We have an open rapport with officials who for the most part, are grateful for the insights our experts provide. Experts= combined experience of 2 guys 60 + years in corp. and gov big projects analysis and a couple Ivy League degrees...and Tax Pig.

Again saying it will be expensive to take the rail..yet I also hear people opposed to the rail as it will give criminals cheap easy access into the suburbs. Can't possibly be both.
And if you don't want the rail..why don't you move elsewhere? Not quite that simple is it?
YEs to rail!