We just lost summer training camp, which is still a loss. But the HQ and regular training facility will remain in Ashburn, according to the WTOP story. In fact, an expansion appears to be planned in Ashburn.

no because you dont need rail to bring players to the HQ

Agree with SB. While it will make little difference to the costs, the money will not go to corrupt union bosses. Having PLA type labor agreements in government funded projects is the first step in becoming hostage to labor unions the way much of New York is. Anyone who has ever tried to conduct development business on Long Island know what I'm talking about. I am very relieved this was dropped for this reason. whew!

Rob, you're like Lucy, always moving the football when Charlie Brown goes to kick it. The PLA was very important to several members of the board, and certainly was a key factor in the decision process before the BoS.

Of course, we have already been assured that even a two to one overcost just doesn't matter, because of the money that will gush out of buildings and paychecks because of this little local rail line. And when that doesn't happen, you can look up the pen-name posters who said it would happen, and see if you can sue them or something. I can just hear the judge now. "You didn't have a signed agreement to that effect, and you don't even know anybody's NAME, and you want this court to refund your money? Case dismissed!" I doubt you could even sue the economist. And the politicians and the news media? Complicit as can be, but you'll never win.

I'm sure they will get a big laugh out of the looks on your faces, folks. Unfortunately for me, pretty much the same look will be on my face too. Oh well.

All the research shows that the tolls would skyrocket whether the Silver Line is built or not.

You mean whether Phase II is built or not. Phase I is already going to make the tolls skyrocket; Phase II will make them skyrocket a lot worse.

Do people really not realize that? Does that "Oh, the tolls will go up anyway" argument really sway people in this supposedly highly educated, high tech corridor? What HAPPENED to this country, anyway? That's like saying "Oh, well I'll have high payments if I buy this with my credit card, so therefore I might as well buy that too." Right. Well, two times high, is still high, of course - but what's missing is the concept of 'even higher'. No wonder we have so many bankruptcies and foreclosures, with that kind of thinking.

What's probably going to happen, is this: nonsense arguments and green T-shirt parties will carry the day, because people are easily swayed. Then, the document will be signed. And then... SURPRISE!!! "Oh, didn't you know the tolls were going to go up, now that it is too late to say no? Wheeeee, look at them go!" And people will say "Oh, well we didn't realize it would be this bad." And then they will suddenly remember to contact their county leaders. "Hey! You better get these tolls down right now!" And the county leaders have the answer all ready to go. "Oh, well what a surprise, the tolls went up. But we can fix that! We can float a Billion Dollar General Obligation Bond! And you, and your children, and your grandchildren can pay it, for generations!" And then they will stop, and smile.

On tolls. Just to respond to Bob's question. The two arguments are getting mixed up. Some are opposing all of phase two, while others just want Loudoun to opt out. Loudoun's participation has minimal impact on tolls if phase two is built, according to the presentations. That's the point I think some people are making, while I believe Bob is comparing tolls with or without all of phase two.

True, I'm thinking that all of Phase II needs to be sent back to the drawing board.

Phase II will definitely go back for redesign if Loudoun County opts out. I believe that a complete redesign of the airport station is necessary either way - a three mile loop of elevated track, and an elevated station a quarter mile from the air terminal, is NOT the way to go. I believe that HUGE savings are possible if the Dulles Airport rail station design is made into a mostly on-ground dead end spur.

WMATA wants the rail yard, so if rail is built to the airport, that will probably happen too. I think that the Rt 606 station and the Rt 606 parking garage are also planned to be built on Dulles Airport property. If Loudoun County fully opts out, I think that MWAA will build the rail yard, and possibly also the Rt 606 station and parking facility as the western terminus.

Whatever happens, screams about the tolls will force Fairfax County to float a Billion dollar (or more) General Obligation bond to pay the tolls down. Federal and Commonwealth of Virginia money is not forthcoming, because this project should never have been undertaken. Fairfax County will probably be doing this borrowing within the next five years, whether Loudoun County opts in or out.

But a redesign opens the door to dedicated BUS lanes in the rail right of way, extending out to Leesburg or beyond. Many things are possible.

First, the inference that the only good worker is a union worker is nonsense!

Second, unions like corporations, often pursue motives for the benefit of the enterprise and not necessairly in the best interest of the “worker”. Yes, unions should rethink what party they support but they won’t because of the strong ‘you scratch my back and I will scratch yours (aka $))’ relationship that exits, especially in the public sector and with the Democratic Party.

I would also say that “workers” should also rethink whether they support unions. Thank heaven in this state they at least have a choice. Phase 2 will not suffer one bit because the PLA preference was dropped.

Finally when you throw around the word “sleazy” you might add those Democratic congressmen and Washington leaders that support trying to throw gobs of tax dollars to vote rich states (like CA and FL) for high speed rail, but can’t seem t find a dime for a rail link to the nation’s international airport.

Neither MWAA, nor the rest of the political machine behind Dulles Rail, ever cared about workers or unions. Like all of the other groups they used, unions were a tool - and, in the end, a throw-away. This is not surprising at all.

What MWAA and the rest of the political machine behind Dulles Rail DO care about is the Billion and a half of overcharge that is hidden in this rail project. What a surprise - keeping that extra money in the budget was, and is, their top priority.

Too bad the citizens were tricked into ignoring that Billion and a half dollars of overcharge - but they were, as always, overloaded with endless, orchestrated arguments that are difficult to understand; and on top of that, they are easily swayed. The news media was and remains complicit, which is why you will not hear about the excessive price of this project, you will not hear about the $53 million FTA blunder, you will not hear about the DOT Inspector General's 2012 audit of risk factors incuding cost, etc. Just about all you will hear is proclamations of how great this overpriced, underperforming rail line is, and how money will gush out of buildings and paychecks now, and how wonderful it all is. And after a few reports of green T-shirt parties at Loudoun BOS meetings, even that will fade into humdrum reports about road closures, construction work, and completion schedules. None of this is accidental.

Bob, your constant insinuation that Loudoun citizens are blind to whatever factoid you're spewing is getting old. You insult the intelligence of the very people you say you're trying to "protect" - nobody was tricked into anything. The people of Loudoun are aware of the costs of the project, and the majority is willing to move ahead, KNOWING the costs.

CC, be sure to leave your name and contact information somewhere, so people can tell you what they think when they discover the actual cost, and what it will mean to them.

Bob, you are off your rocker if you think for one moment that I'd give out contact information online. That's as absurd as your normal rants and raves.

All righty then, CC. I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to be personally responsible for any claims you make.

Back up my "claims" or put myself into a potential stalking situation. Hmmm. Tough choice there.

Sometimes, people need to stand and be counted, CC - and this is one of those times. Orchestrated pen name chatter isn't enough when generations of payments are at stake.

Bob, you've lost your mind.

Generations of payments, Bob, with generations of benefits.

The benefit to payment ratio needs to be improved, Richard. Double priced rail is not a bargain.

John, why are you against Virginia construction workers? The vast majority of them are non-union workers. By having a PLA that pushes jobs to union workers we increase the likelihood fewer Virginia residents and more D.C. and Maryland residents will have jobs.

By not identifying myself publicly? Tax Pig himself can vouch for my existence as a real person, maybe you should talk to him :)

Bob is also keeping up a spreadsheet with my personal information, likes and dislikes (so sad that Safeway is out of my Snapple) - even if he seems to want me to open up my personal world to the throngs of Internet pervs.

Unless we're back to the "CC is a land owner" argument and y'all are going to flag my FB account again, I think my identity is a non-issue. It also shows how threatened y'all are... paranoia will destroy ya!

Regarding your MWAA/MWATA points - the truth is that without a doubt, this is going to cost money. Nothing in this world is free. However, the ROI on this investment stands to be incredible, personally and financially, for everyone in the area.

Mike, I'm in Loudoun. I have neighbors. I don't have a green shirt. My neighbors are FOR Metro, at a higher rate than those recent polls.

Please note, I am not submitting my own personal polling numbers as real data, I'm "just sayin'"

I've been to some meetings, I've seen the shirts, I've read and read and read and looked at all the numbers from both sides. I believe that Metro will be nothing but beneficial, and I'm obviously not alone in that belief.

Rail to Dulles! Rail to Loudoun! Vote YES to rail to Loudoun!

Rob, Solyandra, seriously? If you had a clue, you'd realize you're completely villainizing some woman who may be standing in front of you in line at the grocery store - me. However, I like that you're afraid and making these outrageous claims.

The WSJ article says POTENTIAL job cuts. I am arguing that the POTENTIAL benefit of Metro to Loudoun is nothing to walk away from. Your POTENTIAL trumps mine? Also, your side of the game seems to think Fuller is full of... wind... yet, you quote him now? The only 92,600 number I see regarding jobs refers to non-farm jobs throughout the whole state, and that figure is from 2009. And the Exxon move - the oil is in Houston. Mystery solved.

Are we done yet?

Ok, so, Fuller predicts doom and gloom in December 2011 based upon a lack of DoD funding regarding budget cuts, etc.. We have no control over that, as far as I know.

Fuller then predicts economic promise a few months later, based upon bringing businesses (not govvies) to Loudoun as a result of Metro. We HAVE control over that.

Somehow, Metro just got even shinier. If NoVa and Va are so dependent on the government for survival, it makes MORE sense to attract a wide range of businesses to the region in order to offset the govvies and maintain an even more stable AND lucrative economy that doesn't ebb and flow with each POTUS' administration.

There are no more roads for buses. Buses cost more per person than Rail and they'll mess up the commute even more. Buses do not attract businesses. Loudoun has the opportunity to take control of the future, through Rail. Thanks for the extra info :)

People all over Loudoun County will need bus to GET to and from the massively overpriced rail. So why not opt out, take the busses to Rt 28, or Herndon, and save a whopping lot of money? You can put the bus lanes in the rail right of way, extend them further with the savings, and switch to rail as it actually becomes appropriate. Business isn't going to come to an area that is foolish with its money.

Wait - won't Loudoun County NEED a fleet of hundreds of buses running around, to bring the vast majority of its population to and from the rail stations? And if they already need THAT ... then why not just go to Herndon, Rt 28, or even Reston? Indeed, why not put dedicated bus lanes in the rail right of way all the way to Wiehle Ave?

I think everyone should agree that Loudoun needs some kind of integrated transportation network for its citizens and businesses, both current and future. Whether the Silver Line or busses to Metrorail stations (on dedicated roadways or not) is part of that network is up to the voters and elected reps. A prudent way to decide would be to lay out the alternatives in order to make a cost-benefit analysis to span say 50 years.

To be sure, there are many ‘best guesses’ that must be made for that long a period, but the alternative to making probably what will become the ‘final decision’ about the Silver Line extension into the county, on a short term and especially emotional basis, should be unthinkable.

One positive thing about Dullesrail is that the ‘decades of multi-agency planning’ is about complete; what would that be for a bus alternative starting now, and is the bus alternative a 50 year solution to the LC transportation needs is what needs to be considered.

Given the population density of Loudoun County and even western Fairfax County, rail is not a viable option now - particularly at this doubled price. And bus is not as long-term an option as rail is, so a 50 year horizon is unrealistic for bus. For a realistic lifespan for bus, it is viable and it does make sense. So the argument that Loudoun County would not get Metrorail for decades unless it capitulates immediately, is irrelevant - because Loudoun County really should NOT get Metrorail for decades.

It's time for Northern Virginia to do the unexpected, and actually build a transit system sensibly. 'Rush to Rail' is not the way to go, especially with a Billion and a half dollars of overcharge in it. BUS is what makes sense here, now and for decades to come. And that bus system needs to be built such that it reserves the future rail corridor while it provides needed transit, and such that it can later be expanded to high quality Metrorail, mile by mile if need be, as that time comes - not a too-long, all-local system at two times what it should cost, like the present rail plan.

People - don't let the pen-name posters sway you, and rush you with 'sky-is-falling' claims. They will not be around when this so-called deal turns out to be a disaster. Use your heads!

You certainly have a valid point, however your view is typical of how we always seem to treat infrastructure investments, no offense intended. Putting off infrastructure improvements is why Fairfax County still has major commuter roads that are two-lane and with one-lane bridges. And then we all complain, do we not.

History indicates that economic growth runs in cycles, and it is that growth that helps pay for infrastructure. My position is that if Loudoun EVER anticipates economic growth and they would EVER want the Silver Line spur, now is the time to bite the bullet. And the reason is that there will likely never be another opportunity for rail (eventually to Leesburg) that will be less costly and probably more affordable (in the long run).

On the other hand, living in Fairfax I am good with LC opting out as I think that would benefit FC taxpayers. As I recall you have said elsewhere, there is a lot of empty Dulles corridor office space to fill. So I think all things considered, prospective companies in locating and considering a rail/road link an important factor, would rather be further in the direction on metro-DC than further out. Besides, an opt-out may well mean Phase 2 modified would be completed sooner and at less cost, and that is good for all of us in FC.

Phase 2 at least to the airport will happen, and sooner rather than later. The die is pretty much cast (from long ago) with DTR users paying increased tolls, and borrowing rates higher than tifia.

Loudoun is but a small part of this and may be scared off by near certain reduced future federal spending. And if they do, they will have missed perhaps a once in a lifetime (actually many lifetimes) opportunity for a rail link to and through their major population and economic center. I do not envy their decision due in less than a month.

My guess is that they will NOT opt out!

Hasn't the problem - not only in the United States, but actually in the whole world - been too-easy borrowing? I would think that people might remember the housing bubble, but no... People are not even considering that the cost of this rail project is almost two times what such a project should cost - all they are doing is trying to figure out if they can borrow the money to pay the bloated price anyway, never mind that they are already closing libraries and looking at huge reductions in federal spending, the source of most of their wealth! And why would private industry want to replace federal jobs and repay these bloated rail costs?

In the case of Phase I, there may be merit to this idea - Phase I, complete with its hidden line item prices that were redacted so the public could not see or evaluate them, is already signed and mostly built. A lot of borrowed money needs to be repaid with skyrocketing road tolls, and (of course) that is scheduled to begin in earnest AFTER the papers for the bloated-cost Phase II are signed. And now, having been overcharged for Phase I, apologists are pointing at the Phase I costs to justify the bloated overcost of Phase II.

MUST we make the same mistake again with Phase II, ADDING to the incredible overload that is supposedly to be placed on the toll road drivers - but which we really know, if we are intellectually honest, will be placed on the taxpayers after the agreement is signed, and people start screaming about the usurious tolls?

Back in January 2012, I was reading an article where a Fairfax County Supervisor said that Fairfax County was "kind of at a breaking point" because of cuts that added up to about $68 million - and here we are talking about payments of $50 million to $75 million dollars a year, for 55 years - just to get the TOLLS down - because of a rail line that is premature, and what we really need is a BUS system? Do people get a sense of the scale of this disaster yet?

We are already stuck with Phase I. Can we please get the cost of Phase II down to earth, before it REALLY breaks the bank? Why is the obvious excessive cost of this job not recognized as a major problem? It's not just expensive - it costs almost two times what it should! How can this be ignored, when we are struggling to figure out how to pay for it? We simply can not afford an extra Billion and a half dollars of overcharge in a premature rail system that we do not need, at the very time when when our economy will almost certainly be facing stress that we have never seen in our lives.

You have posted perhaps hundreds of messages in these and other forums , all essentially saying the same thing.. often many each day. You clearly hold yourself as the “smartest kid in class” and everyone else is stupid. Why should anyone listen to you any longer?

I point out the facts; people can look or not look. Why should anyone listen? Mainly so that they might know just how bad this rail plan really is, and so that they might not be deceived, and think that our government is looking out for us in this project.

People should know that the FTA bungled the price of the RT 28 rail station by $53 million, thus indicating that it would be appropriate to review these, and other costs. (By the way, MWAA carefully conceals these costs by redaction.) And people should know that a preliminary review of those costs reveals ridiculously excessive charges for several big line items that the FTA unwittingly revealed.

People should know that this rail project is premature, and that as a result of that and its stunningly excessive pricetags, it will take something like $50 million to $75 million payments every year for 55 years just to reduce the resulting road tolls. And people should know that MWAA's part in this disaster is only part of the story, because WMATA is also waiting in the wings to bring us additional crippling costs.

Several others point out the inappropriateness of rail at this time, the defective road toll funding, the bogus financial plan, and WMATA waiting in the wings with more big expenses for us. But I am the ONLY one pointing out the ridiculously excessive line-item pricetags. I speak out so that people might stop and think: Why should this price gouging be permitted? That is why people should listen, stix.

Also, people should know that the total advertised price for Dulles Rail Phase II appears to be nearly two times what it should be. That means that the Phase II project costs about a billion and a half dollars more than it should cost, and of course that means a heavy load paying back the big pile of money that our leaders propose to borrow for it. A lot of strange financial games have been played to confuse that issue - including the FTA game of pushing the costs of the Rt 28 station and the Phase II parking garages onto Fairfax and Loudoun Counties, and then the FTA and the counties, and our business and political leaders, and almost all of the news media, pretended that those costs just went away! People really need to look at that and see it for what it is - financial deceit.

And this all comes on top of the earlier overcharge for Phase I. Unfortunately, the FTA did not slip up and reveal big-ticket line item costs for Phase I, or perhaps this huge ripoff would have been stopped a lot sooner.

Really, stix - how smart does someone have to be, to look at the prices of comparable jobs, and see the obvious overcharge in this rail project? And why should this price gouging be allowed to happen?