As the Loudoun Board of Supervisors begins a series of outreach meetings about the Dulles Corridor Metrorail Project, much of the long-awaited information about parking needs and possible project financing methods has been presented to the board and negotiations may truly begin.
Possibly the key discussion residents and supervisors had been waiting for centers on how the county would pay for such a project.
Staff members described two tools that could be used in a range of scenarios to pay for the project. The primary new sources of revenue under consideration include a countywide commercial and industrial, or C&I, tax along with a service district tax for properties within one or two miles of the rail stations. Variations were also shown at increments down to zero C&I or service district taxes. In addition, discussions include the possibility of seeking legislation to tailor a custom tax district around the Loudoun Metro stops.
“What is interesting is in some of these scenarios we don’t have to use any general funds whatsoever,” said Supervisor Ralph Buona (R-Ashburn). “To the degree possible, we need to place the bulk or the lion’s share on the those that reap the most benefit.”
A C&I district would tax all properties in commercial or industrial zones, excluding apartment buildings, regardless of location in the county, while a service district would tax all property within a specified distance from the rail stations, including all residential real estate. The scenarios presented by staff showed combinations of using those taxes along with the county’s share of a regional gas tax and general fund revenue.
Some supervisors balked at the idea of instituting new taxes, particularly anything that would apply to a business far away from the rail stations.
“I’ve never seen so many skunks and rats involved in the public process in my entire 12 years” as supervisor, Eugene Delgaudio (R-Sterling) said, accusing some board members of conspiring about ways “to skin the public.”
Delgaudio’s name had come up earlier when Supervisor Matt Letourneau (R-Dulles) said the board was dealing with a decision made by prior boards, including a 2002 statement of support for the project that won Delgaudio’s vote.
Volpe asked staff to confirm assertions that Loudoun would not have to contribute to bus related operating, maintenance or capital expenses as part of its annual contribution to WMATA. A recent discussion with WMATA representatives did not result in clarity for several board members. Such costs would be of great concern to her constituents, Volpe said, because rail provides no direct benefit to them, but it could impact their taxes.
“It won’t make a darn bit of difference on the value of my home or anyone in my neighborhood,” she said, adding that the project would not benefit businesses in Sterling who may wonder why they should pay a C&I tax.
Scenarios discussed during the work session included a C&I tax of 10 cents per $100 of assessed value and a “rail district” tax of 9 cents. Other variations include when the taxes would start, the size of the rail district and at what time such taxes would be rolled back. Some scenarios did include the use of the general fund dollars. Additional scenarios also involved higher and lower tax rates for the C&I and service districts.
For more information and a list of upcoming meetings, visit the county's web page about the project.
To answer your questions, or rather not answer them, it's hard to speculate what a general population who is not accustomed to rail will do. I expect it will be a gradual shift towards bus/rail; as more and more drivers get fed up with traffic (and associated costs of gas, tolls, and parking) and decide to give mass transit a try and find they like how relaxed it is. Sometimes faster, sometimes slower, but always more chill than driving. Metro reminds me of the Theater Industry; they are always operating at a loss, but never go out of business. "It's a mystery."
So now I am not an adult? Could you please let the IRS know so I don't have to pay taxes anymore? I fully grasp the "comcepts" of all of this, I never said it was cheap, but the benefits will offset the cost in the long run and your plan just sounds like throwing good money after bad.
The people who live here and will be directly affected by the rail coming to Loudoun want the rail, we want to see the area develop into something great, not just for ourselves but for future generations.
This is a consumer product and it should be judged as to how well it will perform. It is now time for Phase II to stand on its own attributes, not high platitudes. Stix, I am counting on you. Please tell me specifically, with examples (Brambleton to North Point, or Sterling Park to Merrifield e.g.), how much better Phase II is. I think that you will find, as express bus riders have since Metro opened, that when their bus route is terminated and they are forced onto the train that their commute time is increased significantly. This will certainly be true of the express buses at Herndon-Monroe Park and Ride. And I almost forgot, what are the projected fares going to be?
Bus and bus lane costs are lower than rail, so the bus system - that you know you will need - can run much farther. As for environmental concerns, I have pointed out that here in the 21st century, we have buses that can run on electrical power where available, or on engine or battery power elsewhere. That makes a whole lot of transit possible, and you will need it if you want to get people from the rail stations over on the east side of the county, to and from offices and homes out to the north, south and west. Since you already need that, why not use it a little further, and save a lot of money, by being smart, opting out, and running BUS instead? You can take the money you save, and establish dedicated transit BUS routes to many places NOW. And those dedicated lanes will reserve the routes for future rail, when rail actually becomes appropriate.
Look at "Uncle Smarty-Pants" post a few threads above. Developers create projects, then sell them to investors. If there are no tenants, the investors shoulder the loss, not the developer. Look at his comments that make eminent domain seizure sound like it's some type of win-win for everyone, then do some actual investigation into people that have been victimized by eminent domain seizure. The reason the developers taking heads are on here is VERY simple: THEY DON'T WANT THE PEOPLE OF LOUDOUN CHECKING THIS OUT. THEY DON'T WANT YOU INVESTIGATING COST. THEY DON'T WANT YOU INVESTIGATING IMPACT. THEY DON' WANT YOU INVESTIGATING NECESSITY, IN SHORT, THEY DON'T WANT LOUDOUN RESIDENTS TO HAVE A SAY. It's up to the residents of Loudoun to investigate the soundness and need for this project. If you look at any of the posts by the "opposition" above, they're not really opposing, but rather questioning and offering other ideas..... two things the developers can have no part of. They must try and control you like sheep to slaughter, hence all the Rah-Rah posts.
By the way, one of the reasons my company with its several hundred local employees moved to its present location last year is because of the planned Innovation Metro stop.
Smartypants had the most reasonable post on this whole chain. He asked you to give an example of eminent domain seizures that were as awful as you claimed (12.5%). If you can't do so, you don't have much credibility. Same with your comments about occupancy. Without facts, you're just ranting. If you can't substantiate your comments with facts, and since you never comment on anything other than your singular obsession with developers, and that you write in CAPS as if you're screaming, one might conclude that you're obsessed and irrational.
I believe that we have seen careless overdevelopment, and that it is in fact a pyramid scam. Sell investors on big building profits, and string everybody along as long as possible, and justify construction, with cooked-up occupancy numbers. But although I do believe that many here are indeed business and political shills, I am more interested in the actual issue of this rail project - its cost versus what it should cost, and the need for it, and the viability of the BUS alternative to it at this time. I am asking TGG for the source of his numbers, not to challenge or contadict him, but to get the truth out. I think his numbers are much closer to the truth than 86% occupancy. 86% just doesn't match what I see, when I happen to be driving around. But the industry reports that are on line have all claimed extremely high occupancy numbers for many years. Maybe we will find that they mean that 86% of the buildings have -some- occupancy. That, I could believe.
http://www.costar.com/News/Article/Westbrook-Pays-$417M-for-One-Dulles-Corridor/138824#.T8d6Yqc0Tug.gmail BTW, all you people who look at a builbing and divine occupancy, here's a little tip for you: Do it at night, but after cleaning crews are gone. Developers almost always keep the lights on in unoccupied spaces to draw attention to them.
I will say that from your previous comments, my opinion is that using your auto is the best for most of your personal needs.. especially in good weather, in light traffic, no delays such as construction, breakdown or accident, and cost (including the car depreciation, fuel, maintenance, insurance, tolls, parking, etc.) is no object. I found it interesting that you chose Metro to go to DC last week. I can only assume that one or more of the conditions mentioned above were unfavorable. So at least you have proven that under some circumstances the Metro is the best choice. My guess is that on a 365/24/7 basis, many Loudoun commuters will find Metro the better choice over private auto as you did, and especially as population grows in the next 20-50 years.
I rode that particular route to the Convention Center for two different reasons. One, even though my employer would have reimbursed my parking expenses, I ride public transportation when it goes where I go. I am a firm believer in public transportation and have ridden the Metro system off since it opened in the 1970’s. Second, is leadership by example. If I am speaking about this subject, I should have a basic knowledge of how it works. And the only way that I can do that is to actually get out and ride within the system during different conditions and scenarios, so I am not totally talking through my hat. I am not against public transportation or specifically heavy-rail for that matter. It is just that it is doomed to failure unless it adequately serves the people who ride it. And as I have said before, with the frequent stops, the need for multiple transfers, seemingly never ending enroute time, lack of flexibility and its present lack of dependability; I question this technology for this purpose Oh, and I forgot, its questionable funding for both construction and operations for the next how many years to come.
For those that don't remember: http://www.waldoandlyle.com/resources/waldo-and-lyle-articles/97-virginia-must-stop-abuse-of-eminent-domain Here's a little hint: If there are attorney's representing homeowners against eminent domain seizure, there must be a reason for it. If any of the so called"Rah-Rah" boys bothered to look on the web for maybe 1 minute it would become quite clear to anyone why eminent domain is a problem. There are some very serious logic problems with many of the posts on this thread: 1. Why is it that a few posters in this thread conclude that Loudoun county residents need to investigate what's going on & find out for themselves costs, impacts, etc. and this seems to be such an horrific threat that it **must** be quashed as insanity or stupidity? 2. Why would any **normal** person defend eminent domain seizure? (HINT: A normal person wouldn't) This is, exactly what another poster said it was: A bunch of marketing people from development companies trying to shut up opposing opinions. And it really is a smoke and mirrors show - They use any trick they can to try and keep the focus off costs and real results and put it on their fantasies about boom towns that never materialize.
Now ***that's*** saying something.
"While much of the Dulles corridor struggles to land tenants (Fairfax County’s office vacancy rate, according to Jones Lang LaSalle Inc., is 13.8 percent; the rate for the Reston/Herndon submarket is 17.8 percent) Reston Town Center can tout a measely 4 percent vacancy rate and leases that top that of the overall corridor by $10 to $18 per square foot." Not quite 49%, don't you think? Original Article: http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/blog/2012/06/reston-town-center-point-of-pride.html
Here are some observations: 1. This now apparently infamous poster using ID "TGG" likely shouldn't be ignored or taken too seriously. He didn't supply a basis for his facts. Were they real? Were they based on a limited study? Was he referencing a specific type of real estate? Is it published anywhere? 2. The other posts, particularly those from "Uncle Smartypants" at 8:58PM on Saturday, June 2, 2012 as well as his other post referencing "data" aren't any better, in fact, maybe worse. Both posts are sourced in what others are referring to as "special interest" supplied data, including the one from the Washington Post. The source of the data in the brilliant Washington Post article is "Jones Lang LaSalle Inc" which a commercial real estate marketing firm. Gee, I'm fooled. His other post was from yet another clearly biased source. The internet has become the world biggest scam market. Anything anyone reads or sees, particularly on a "hot" topic like this needs serious investigation if it's to be taken seriously. It's truly a sad day when the Washington Post reporting is so incompetent that they cite a special interest for facts. It's sort of like asking Bashar al-Assad to give an unbiased opinion on the Syrian revolt. I hope the leaders of Loudoun County have more depth and intelligence. It's a sorry world when the Post doesn't bother verifying their information.
I couldn't agree more with The Analyst....but he's really just repeating what I said a few threads up, namely CHECK EVERYTHING OUT. This thread is, however, an excellent lesson for those who wish to see how developers use trickery, fake statistics, and misinformation to con people.
But I don't understand your comments about the Washington Post. My link was to an article in the Washington Business Journal, not affiliated in any way with the WaPo. I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I hope Loudoun opts out. I hope the Silver Line stops at Dulles. I don't think it makes sense to go to Ashburn at this date.
Something just seems wrong with these figures. 86% occupancy DOES sound high - but I noticed somebody saying that an 82.2% occupancy figure means that owners are 'struggling' to get tenants, in the June 1, 2012 Washington Business Journal article "Reston Town Center 'point of pride' for developer as it celebrates 22 years." So 82% means that owners are struggling to find tenants, but 86% means that developers should all run out and build more buildings? Something has to be wrong with these figures somewhere. Meanwhile, none of this really relates to the issue of overpriced, premature rail. It's just a different example of strange numbers being used to support construction in search of a purpose.
http://reston.patch.com/articles/developers-have-vision-for-crescent-apts Interestingly he points out that a lot of the mega buildings around Dunn Loring were empty, with many owners filing for bankruptcy rather than filling up as the Rah-Rah boys suggest and promise.